Did anyone see them on SNL? They were awful. simply awful... I went to a PATD concert about a year and a half ago, and it was fairly decent, but this new stuff is wierd. Not as good as their first album, and for the time that it took them to pump this out, im quite dissapointed.

There are some bands that should never leave the album.. Fall Out Boy and Panic are 2 of those bands. Both are usually awful live. I've seen FoB live and can attest that it's high energy.. but not much else.

Are you serious? FoB live is amazing. High energy and they sound the same as on CD. I've seen 'em three times although I've only seen P!ATD once which I can say was nothing spectacular.

PATD was more of a show than a concert, there were too many gimmicks between songs, cirque de soleil type preformances, which i guess fits with their theme...

Dead serious. Pete Wentz destroys FoB with his girly emo antics. I really wish they would get a new bassist. He does nothing for the band, but make me feel ashamed to listen to them. He was awful in the concert. They weren't as together as any other band I've seen. basically, +44 put them to shame.

How can you compare +44 and FoB? That is your problem. Travis Barker destroys all.

But seriously, I thought it was pretty sweet when Pete climbed 50ft. in the air, hung upside down, while screaming his part in "Saturday". I thought the show was pretty good, minus pete's girly attire that he's acquired over the last few years. But hey, now he's tapping Ashlee Simpson, so maybe it works?

+44 opened for FoB at the show I went to. The show wasn't really all that bad. But Pete's stupid twirl around thing + gay emo attire + his ego = semi-ruined experience for me.

I just don't think that their sound changed to a "live" sound.. it just sounded less rehearsed.

Well certainly more 14 year old girls listen to Panic than say, 24 year old men, or basically any other demographic. So it seems a fair enough statement. And you're saying that since I don't like the band that I have no right to discuss it? Does that mean that if I don't like religion, bush or gas prices that I shouldn't be able to discuss them either? As to the quote about how music doesn't suck just because I don't like it, well you can't prove that it doesn't suck just because you do like it. Wonderful argument on your part.



Are you a chick or just a really confused middle age dude?

You're not discussing the merits of the music. You're bashing/flaming plain and simple. If you had given the bolded statement instead of your original.. I could let it slide. But stating that you know the intended audience of PATD's music is a little audacious.

I've been to a FoB concert, and I was genuinely surprised at how many "bros"/"frat boys"/20 something males there were in the audience. I don't think they out-numbered the preteen's.. but this was no N-SYNC or Backstreet Boys concert. It was a well mixed crowd that leaned a bit towards the pre-teen crowd. But seeing as you are obviously the all knowing authority on target audiences... I'll pretend this was a rare slip up.

Lastly: seeing as how you love to run around the forums flaming and generally being a worthless post whore.. tack your posts up on the Flame Thread where it will be acceptable.

I'm not discussing the merits of the music? That would be difficult considering you'd be hard pressed to find any in this case. As for the age/gender issue, in short, it isn't the 20 year old frat boys who keep that band going. I don't think any of my statements on the issue are farfetched at all and I don't think my claims are any more or less audacious than anyone elses in here regarding the matter. So no it wasn't a slip up. I don't claim to be an all knowing authority regarding the music and entertainment industry and/or it's target audiences, but I certainly have more experience/knowledge being involved in it than the average person, and quite likely more than you do.

It's odd how whenever you voice your statements you seem to think that they're valuable and valid, yet when I voice my opinions (since they're the opposite of yours), you deem them as "flaming" and go on to call me a post whore, which doesn't seem so much an insult as much as it seems an indicator that you don't really have anything else intelligent to say to back up any of your claims.

It is a fair enough statement, but that is no reason as to why they "suck". ***And nowhere in my post did I say you had no right to discuss it, I was saying you were an idiot because you couldn't tactfully or intelligibly argue as to why the music sucked. It was just because they sang songs that 14 year old girls would listen to. You are an idiot by all definitions of the word. You have poorly formed arguments and you read into statements way too much just so you can twist them so that it seems like you have a good defensive position. Nowhere did I say the music didn't suck because I liked it, but I guarantee you I can defend it better than you could bash it.

Stop reading into things that aren't there and defend your position like a human being with an IQ over 40. And yes, most of this was a flame simply because you proved to anyone who reads this that you deserved to be flamed.



Wow, classy. You sure are cool.



What is odd is that you think you voice a good opinion. You simply say it sucks with no legitimate argument as to why it sucks. Do they only use power cords? Are the lyrics poorly written? Give something that involves higher brain function to come up with. So yeah, you are simply flaming and by the way, you might want to be less hypocritical in what you say as bolded in the quote above.

edit: *** correction, I reread my post and realized my mistake. I worded it incorrectly and for that, I apologize. You do have right to participate in the conversation, just for the love of God formulate a good argument that one can respond to analytically.

I'm gonna agree with berto on this one. I'm just wanting a fact based opinion on the matter. I'm totally for hearing opinions I disagree with, as long as they have a modicum of reasoning behind them.

Example: The fact that I have been to a FoB concert, lends credibility to my statements on the makeup of the audience.

The bolded statements are where you've said something w/o any credibility to it. No reasoning behind it. The 1st is a blatant flame, since there's no way to prove musical merit. It's all opinion based, and you give no reason other than "14 year old girls" as to why you dislike the music. The 2nd you don't say how or why you may have more "authority on the music industry".. you just make a blanket statement and leave.

I guess since that works in your world: I am Superman.

I'm not really involved in this thread, but I can respond to those bolded statements. Apologies in advance Alex.

The first isn't a flame--he's genuinely arguing that FoB (or PATD or whatever) has very little musical talent.
Very little technicality on the musicians' parts, and the lyrics are like Wentz tries to string pun after pun after wannabe-clever wordplay together. Fuck, dude, we get it, "atavan halen"? Fucking genius...
Sure, they're catchy, there's no way in hell to deny that, but that's all they have going for them. They don't challenge the listener in any way [following is opinion] and thus they don't even qualify as art. In general they're a real shame for the music "industry" (not meaning the big producing-company infrastructure) in that they're parading around and making money hand over feet and yet so many artists that are actually doing SOMETHING with their music are struggling to barely make even.

Oh, Alex, don't ever fall back on the defense about there being "bros/frat guys in the audience"; they--generally--have just as bad a music taste as 14 y/o girls, just geared in a different genre.

To address the second bolded statement: just from the past on these boards, I know Destri plays guitar I believe. In any case, he plays something, and thus has likely been in a band. Possibly played shows, who knows. Not saying his argument is valid, but just to guess he probably has a little bit of experience having most likely been in a small-time band.

Ben, I just bolded what I was looking for from Destri. I just wanted some reasoning behind his arguments.

I'll agree with you that FoB and Panic are super catchy and not much else. I like listening to them when I just want to jam out and maybe have a sing along. (Though, Panic's recent lyrics do make me sit and think about what's trying to be said). I honestly loathe Wentz. I think he's a detriment to an otherwise good band. Listen to "You're Crashing, But You're No Wave" on Infinity on High. I'm pretty sure Wentz was largely left out of the creative/lyrics process on this one. God does it show. Lyrics about real world injustice.

I really wasn't trying to justify Panic being a band that shows good taste in music, only that 14 y/o girls (as implied by Destri) are not the only listeners of their music.

And if Destri is looking for some proof of my musical experience, trying playing the cello for 8+ years, preforming in one of the best orchestras in the state for 4 of those years and making the All District Orchestra of the KC Metro area.

Music is rather subjective, that's true. But I don't believe that it's value is completely subjective. If your line of argument were totally true in that regard, then should musicians along the lines of Hannah Montana be held in the same regards as Beethoven and Mozart?

When I made my statements about Panic, I wasn't just referring to the actual music they produce, but also the whole cultural aspect of it, and that they are really just a product to satisfy a demographic. In terms of their actual instrumental talent, there are many others who could produce equal (if not better) music. Their job isn't just that of being a musician, it's involves being a performer. In fact, their image is part of the thing that makes it work for them. Of course any other number of bands could do what they do (as mentioned above) but one way or another, they're the ones who made it out of the mix. In a sense they're just something that was created to meet a specific demand. If it's not them it's someone else. Now if you wanted me to get really technical, I could go into their actual musicianship. But that would be another paragraph of work for me (which I don't want to do that much typing just to state what is blatantly obvious already)



I don't really like tooting my own horn if you know what I mean. Hense why you probably won't get much out of me unless you ask for specific information. For those of you who don't know, I live and work in Hollywood. As such I bump shoulders which lots of people in the entertainment and music industry everyday, as well as having had jobs in it. As for the whole comment about guitar (I don't even remember when I mentioned that on here) I do play quite a bit (In fact the first time I ever played on a stage in front of an audience was alongside Kerry King from Slayer) I'm quite involved with the music scene here so I spend most of my free time during the week either hanging out at rehearsal studios, going to gigs, or spending time with other musicians. I didn't say that I have more "authority" on the music industry, or music in general, just a fairly good idea seeing as I'm practically immersed in it from the time I wake up until the time I go to bed.