Well specifically about the electrocution...its a true fact that some companies do that to kill animals. Specifically my uncle worked at one back in Indiana...soo....they might use misinformation(though I doubt it) but this is definetly not an instance of it...it happens no matter how terrible it sounds.

All I can say is meat tastes better than tofu (sp?) and that is why I eat it.

All I can say is that meat (in my opinion) is less humane that vegetables, which is why I don't eat it.

Reel Big Fish: "Say 'Ten' "

She's not eatin' bacon, not eatin' sausage
and she won't eat eggs,
Not eatin' chicken, not eatin' turkey,
she won't have a steak,
But I just can't help feelin' sorry
for this poor little lettuce head
You know, I can't stop cryin'
'Cause I know this broccoli's dead
Vegetarian, I'm not a vegetarian
Vegetarian...she's a
Poor little cow, little sheep
Little fish how can I sleep?
When carrots are bleedin'
Plants are screamin' and tomatoes cry
You say "it's not so bad
They're only vegetables", that's what you said
Maybe I'm a murderer, but I'm hungry
And they're better off dead
Save a plant, eat a cow
I want beef, I want it now!
I'm gonna eat it cause it's red!
I'm gonna eat it cause it's dead!
maybe I should eat it raw
Let the blood run down my jaw
I'd eat people if it was legal
I'd eat people if it was legal!


Every time PETA, vegetarianism, or veganism comes up I just can NOT help but think of this song ;-)

righteous!

i just want to say i totally agree with Capella. i have the same argument with everyone and anyone i know who eat meat. But I guess there are very few who care about other animals being dead or alive.

I know lots of ya all are not gonna agree with this..but guess no one can tell anyone what to eat or what not to eat.

Is an animals life more precious than a humans? I don't think so. I don't condone killing animals for fun or anything like that, but I also don't condone the actions PETA takes. There are many LEGAL ways to get a point across. Many times PETA goes overboard with this.
An example:
PETA demanded that Dreamworks change their logo of a kid fishing off the moon because they felt it portrayed a bad image of fish. They didn't realize that the kid was fishing for dreams as Dreamworks put it.

there is a food chain whether we like it or not. there is a hierarchy. we do not all sit on the same plain. i agree that animals shouldnt be tortured or anything, but it is natural to eat them. humans and their digestion systems are built for it just the same as tigers or bears are. we have incisors for tearing flesh. we can not all eat berries. the world and the ecosystem would not support it. if an eagle eats a fish, why shouldn't a human? simply because we can put ourselves in the fish's mind and think of how scared it is? it is natural selection whether it is with talons or a fishing lure or a shotgun.

the whole world is made of natural checks and balances. if there were no deer season, deer populations would be out of control and starvation and disease would run rampant among them. we have to kill them because they have no predators anymore in so many parts of the country. there are no wild bears roaming around anymore to keep the populations in check as they've all been sequestered to zoos and wildlife preserves so no humans get maimed by them while theyre out in the woods admiring gods beautiful planet and thinking to themselves 'i am one of gods creatures, and i should eat no other'.

people are going to eat meat, and animals are going to be killed. if the whole arguement is over cruelty and the treatment of animals, then how should the animals be killed? can you come up with a good way to do it? and if a person would kill a deer to survive, and eat its meat, why shouldn't that human have a rug from the skin? wouldn't any other way be wasteful? now lets say that its a company killing a cow, why should that skin not be turned into a couch? wouldn't any other way be wasteful?

if you don't want to eat meat, then that's fine. if peta wants to inform everyone on how terrible and incompassionate it is to have a fur coat, then that's fine. but no one should harass anyone else over it. make your life choice for whatever reasons and move on. and that goes both ways.

If you fish with a shotgun, then you've got some serious issues...

Yeah, really.
Sticks of dynamite are FAR more effective.
...
Wait, what was the question?

Well, I know this debate has been beat to death thoughout various threads on these forums, and I know the people on either side of this issue have drastically different viewpoints which they are convinced of, and the odds of either side convincing the other of there way of seeing things are very wee.

However, as I am more passionate about this issue than anything else in the world, I seem incapable of not throwing in my two cents into any debate about animal rights/vegetarianism/veganism.

Soo... I'll give you this vegans views on the issues you mentioned.



I think it is very arguable that we have the same digestive systems as carnivores, or even omnivores. It is my understanding there are a lot of differences. I can list several sources explaining the differences between our digestive systems and those of carnivores or omnivores, but then I can also provide several showing the similarities, so I won't bother unless someone explicitly asks. We obviously can eat meat, but we can also obviously live without it. One thing I will point out, however, is that humans are the only animals who eat meat that cook it, and in fact, I doubt many humans would be capable of eating raw meat. It seems odd to me to consider eating meat natural if we have to perform the artificial act of cooking it before we can even eat it.

Also, as far as us having incisors, I have never considered that reasonable evidence that we are meat eaters. Our closest relatives, gorillas, have much larger incisors than we do, and they are frugivores, eating only fruit, nuts, and roots. The incisors on a gorilla are used for defense.



I'm not sure what your justification is for that argument. There is also an argument that the world cannot sustain our current systems of animal agriculture.



Becuase we don't have to do so to live healthy lives.

Anyway, by the same token you could say that if a pig eats it's young, than why shouldn't a human? When else do we look to animals as a model for how we should behave?



What is it that keeps us in check, then? I don't feel that there is one beyond our sense of global responsibility, which as a species, is very lacking. In fact, I would contend that these systems of checks and balances really don't exist anymore. Humans have interfered with the world ecosystems so much that most don't really function anymore. You allude to this yourself with the deer example below.



two points:
1) maybe it's true that deer populations would "run out of control" if we did stop hunting them. However, I really think it's just an issue of humans have overextended our bounds and are now impeding on the habitats of these other animals. I say we are the intruders and not the deer. And, as you point out, there are less predators for deer now because of us. And as you mention, and I talk about above, this wouldn't be an issue if we hadn't disrupted the ecosystem so badly in the first place.

2) I find the argument of the "altruistic hunter controlling deer populations" to be weak at best. One buck can impregnate many does. If the goal was to control populations, hunters would prefer to hunt does than bucks. That is not the case. If the goal was to control disease, then hunters would not seek the buck with the biggest rack. These are the ones that are the healthiest and strongest. Also, it is my understanding that some state actually breed deer to promote hunting so that they can sell more hunting licenses. States make a lot of money each year off of deer hunters. I am sure there are many hunters on these forums, and I don't really want to step on any toes here, but this is my opinion.



I feel that many factory farming practices are very inhumane and are much less concerned with animal welfare than they are with increasing profits. The concern is not so much with how the animal is killed, although that concern exists as well, but how the animal is treated prior to the time of slaughter. In most cases, the animal is treated horribly.



I agree that nobody should be harassed for their views. However, if a group feels that there is something fundamentally wrong with an aspect of society I feel it is their right, and moreover, their responsibility as members of that society to speak out against it.

Jesus monkey, that was a long post.

Yeah, that was a long post. The only comment I have is about this part:



I agree with this, but PETA does much more than speak out. They chose to act more like a terroist organization than a legitimate group, which ends up hurting their cause more than it helps.

Yeah i'm pretty sure everyone agrees that PETA goes a little far sometimes. Moreover, anytime you have such a large organization with a diverse array of members, you will have some that do stupid things independent of the goal of the organization.

Good post beane

Been reading the PeTA website, eh? (i had to check it out )

For one thing, disease in deer really isn't a problem in Missouri (yet anyway, i'm praywing Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) dosen't spread here). Our deer heard is in excellent shape, on the opening day of firearms season in November i saw 10 deer in about 4 hours, all very fat and healthy.

Of course me being a male i killed the one with the biggest rack to show off and hang on my wall, and i of course kept the meat. I would not kill an animal if i am not going to eat it (unless it is a problem animal), that would be essientlay wasting its life.

In Missouri, you can only legally kill one buck a year. However in some units you can kill an unlimited number of does. Killing does does control the population better, and the meat tastes better, however it just isn't the same as killing a big buck.

Also, a large portion of funding for the Missouri Department of Conservation comes from a sales tax placed on all sporting equipment sold in the state. This kepts the Department (who i work for during the summer) in a pretty good place financially, and lets the do a good job of keeping our fish and wildlife well managed. If sporting goods were not sold because of hunting/fishing being illegial MDC would be in trouble.

Anyway, i respect everyones right to do whatever they like with their lives, but some of the tatics suggested on that website made me a little mad (trying to "save" deer by spreading human hair around popular hunting places, ect.).