PvP doesn't take a whole lot of skill. Planning: yes, skill: no.
You say that you find that racism is best dealt with by shrugging it off and joking about it. That's easy to say when you're the one dishing it out (if you don't understand what I'm talking about, please go reread your posts).
This was a joke? So you're really not challenging everyone? Hmmm...
Being a minority you've dealt with many acts of racism... well I've seen you dish out quite a few in just these few posts, so forgive me if I don't care. Some of us actually treat people equally, and let me tell you: being a majority, i've received many acts of racism. In fact, I can show you a few in this thread, coming from you.
I didn't understand the first time? Hm... I could have swore I got everything. I'm pretty sure I'm a lot more intelligent than you.
As for your direct insults to me, and to the other people in this thread, it shows that you have no respect at all.
Trash talk is involved in any invitation to a challenge, friendly or not? Hmm, I must have missed the memo. Because usually when I go play a game, it's not "Hey, wanna play?", instead it's "hahahaha omg u sux lolz! Come here so i can pwn you at [insert game name]" [/sarcasm] Seriously...



Edit: Removed a part of what I said. I felt bad saying it even if I didn't mean it.

PvP can take a lot of skill, depending on what game. Specifically games where everyone is on a fairly equal playing field as far as equipment and level/skills (whatever the game uses).

Group PvP also takes a lot of skill too. Just like fps's you must rely and know your clanmates like the back of your hand, have good communication, know when to make the right move. Takes lots of practice.

PvP does require skill. But there are many other factors that are more important (in MMOs, equipment is more important most of the time than skill or class selection). So, I can see why Sutherlands said that about it not needing skill, since skill is like the last thing most worry about.

Wow Heretic, do you feel big because you're an admin? What's sad is that you're taking your role way out of perspective. First of all, I'm fairly certain everyone is entitled to his/her own opinions. Secondly, this is UMR's forum, who are you to disallow any person from expressing their thought so long as it meets the forum rules? Finally, I have no idea why you keep saying "I have no idea what I'm taling about", when I have these games and have played them all. You have obviously never played Call of Duty. Quite frankly, Tito, it takes more skill, yes SKILL, to utilize your teamates and use strategy to carry out an objective rather than just run straight for it, shooting the ground at your opponents' feet with missiles and whathave you. That takes into your account of "timing" and "accuracy", if you consider shooting the ground accurate. You say you can beat people at these ridiculous excuses for games, and I bet yes, anyone who has played them for a long time would become adept at the jump-shoot-charge tactic, but do you really consider that skill? Neba, that was an incredible joke. I don't know about everyone else, but I was peeing my pants. You have likely never played a teamsport, which involves sportsmanship. After a basketball game would you go up to the other team and yell profanities in their face? Or how about beforehand, which makes even less sense.

usually I dont exercise my powers, infact i'm biting my tongue pertaining to neba's behavior right now.

yes this is a free country, but here's where you're wrong

this is not UMR's forums, this is seek42's forums. Seeing as how Joe and I now run Seek42, it is OUR forums, not the university's. So frankly, you dont have "rights" here, you have privledges.

and here is where you prove my point yet again. Way back when CoD first came out, I played it. I had a clan in it. When it came out, I heard it was based on the quake 3 engine, which immediately sparked my interest (being an avid quake player i figured the engine would be friendly with my aiming abilities). Only to be sadly disappointed. The only "difficult" part of playing that game is exactly what you state, it requires teamwork. Well something like teamwork is relatively simple to a person like me (competative cs for the past 5 years, CPL contender, and competing at most local major LAN events) so please dont spout about teamwork, i've worked through and forgotten more strats then you will ever know in your entire life. So when I think of a game that requires skill, I think of a game that requires skill from the individual player, and not from the team in general. And if you even begin to say those WWII re-enactment games require skill, try moving as fast as you can while railing your enemy from accross the map mid-air. Or try joining a server, and being the top player in the server with just a deagle, and 1 shotting everyone you see.

my favorite is playing some uber-star at quake and losing the DM with a final score:

them: 20
me: -2

and knowing they purposedly made me kill myself multiple times for sport.

You've obviously played Quake enough to learn that you generally fire at an opponent's feet when in close combat with rockets. Congratulations, you have knowledge of one of the most basic elements of Quake. Consider this to be equivelant of a player just realizing that you have to pull your mouse down when firing a weapon with recoil in COD, otherwise your crosshair jumps up and you miss. I bet it takes about 3 times firing a weapon in COD in order to realize this. Probably similar in Quake. I bet it takes a couple weeks to become decent at effectively controlling the recoil in COD. It can take months or years to master rocket placement for a similarly-skilled player.

You go on to mention timing. You're not even in the ballpark on the meaning of timing in deathmatch games. Timing is not "hmm.. if I shoot my rocket this much in front of player, player and rocket will meet and rocket will blow player up." Timing is keeping track of when items will respawn on a map. Armors in Quake 3 take 25 seconds to spawn. When you pick one up, you look at your clock and add 25 seconds. Simple, right? Try keeping the times on 2 or 3 armors and a mega health (35 second time - different from armors) at the same time while also keeping track of your opponent, reacting to his position on the map, and attempting to hold advantageous position yourself. Maintain an average rail accuracy of around 40%, lightning accuracy above 25%, and you might be an average 1v1 player in the competitive scene.

Add keeping track of as many health spawns (also 35 seconds) as you can, a small handful of weapon spawns (2 or 3 weapons, depending on how big your brain is, at 15 seconds each), and adjusting your movement around the map accordingly, and you're becoming a good player.

Individual skill equivelant in COD or other WWII game: "Is he going to be behind THIS wall...... or THAT wall...?"

Want to play some 1v1?

As great as this conversation is going, I'll add my opinion.

I have played quite a few fps, and I think that the most strategic and skill based was tribes 2 (I wasn't online during t1's prime). This was a CTF centered game where you didn't have to race to pickup the greatest weapon.

I competed in a league for a while and there was TONS of strategies and teamwork envolved. And since you were flying through the air 90% of the time, it took alot of skill to lead your targets and get a mid-air hit.

I have, however, enjoyed many other games and I respect them all for their different skill sets...

Geez! Am I the only one who has realised that of every single one of these post, not a one is even mentioning the original challenge? The guy wants to play other teams on GWs, and you guys hijck his forum in order to discuss racism, sportmanship, and whether "real" FPSs are better or worse than Quake.
I am only sorry that my post is also not dealing directly with accepting or denying his post, but I merely am trying to get a simple point across:
"Accept/Deny his challenge, or don't post"

Once again Neba, I'm sorry for adding this post that isn't dealing directly with your challenge, but hopefully it will help clear out the trash.

Shutup.

Sutherlands: Don't be such a dick. And by dick, I mean pussy. If anyone was the least bit offended by anything he said (aside from you), i'm sure they just ignored it. You should go wash some of the sand out of your vagina, and stop whining about ur sore uterus.

Thanks Wizard. At least someone that read this post had the common sense to understand the original intent of this post. Tribes 2 was an awesome game.

You know Sutherlands, you are about the most pompous prick in front of a keyboard, when you can make your dick out to be 10ft long. But frankly, Im tired of "furiously and with malice in my heart" typing back at you. If you have the balls and are even half the hot shit you make yourself appear to be on the forums, then come on over and we'll have it out the old fashioned way. I know one guy that already wants to beat the shit out of you and its not even for anything you've said on the forums. If you treat everyone as "equally" as you treated me, im sure you're going to have a LOT of supporters when shit hits the fan. Let me know if you're coming. Hope to see you soon.

As far as I'm concerned this post post is null and void. Thanks guys. Appreciated. No, really, you try too hard.

~Capn'

P.S. Sorry heretic, didnt know I had to be so PC. Dont worry, it wont happen again.

mmo versus fps..

regardless of how elitiest you want to be in believing you play a more challenging game, think again. No matter which of these you are playing, you are just exercising a set, pre planned, amount of manuevers, and by manuevers i mean key strokes, mouse manipulations etc. I find this to be a deteriming factor in a lot of games, it frustrates a lot of people on my floor when we play halo2. we play with no shields so a well placed shot or two instantly kills a person. I have many a time in teams games, by myself, taken on four people, not with a grenade.. oh noes, with a gun, and a pattern of search, fire, and evade tactics. and guess what.. I use these same damn skills in WoW with my rouge, and other characters. Games work about the same when they are put into any form of realtime, its always going to be some set of patterns, if its objective based fps DEFINITLY this is more true than non objective based game play, you know most of the time what the other team is probably going to do, and take the actions to counter it.

which brings me to the second point.. realistic versus unrealistic. another form of gamer elitism that is just beyound stupid. Unreal Tournament, or battle field two, both require a great deal of skill. and you know what creates skill? competative game play, YOU GET COMPETATIVE GAME PLAY in MMO's, FPS, RTS, ETC. When you have competition, you have skill, your ability to better thrash your opponenet. Chess takes skill. Your ability to perceive what could happen, and counter it. FPS take skill, youra bility to judge where the hell someone will move, and kill them. And regardless of unrealistic or realistic, those values stay true. I'd argue that games like unreal are harder and take a larger degree of skill. unreal 2k4 is by far the fastest fps I have ever played, its mind numbing how slow other fps are, and its the sole reason i can't enjoy them. why does how accurately a gun fire mean anything? in the end you still have to master the same feats the other person does, in the end it comes down to compitition again..

anyway gamer elitism is stupid.. it just proves how dorky we all are.

Only one game requires true skill...



...and anyone who disagrees with me is a douchebag.

Well I'm sorry Neba, I forgot I wasn't supposed to respond with intelligence in my post. Too bad you couldn't refute what I said. "The old fashioned way"... wow... that's... um... barbaric? Yeah, I try to stay out of fistfights, it's kind of 3rd gradish. As for treating everyone equally, I don't use racial slurs, I wish I could say the same about you. As for other people, I showed this to another guy and I wanted him to beat you in AOE3 like you said, but he thought you were a complete tool and wanted nothing to do with you. As you can see by the other posts on here, we're not alone. As for being PC... well, you don't have to be, I'm not. I refer to blacks and whites, gays, etc... but I don't go around cussing at everyone, and throwing slurs around. It's about respect. I'll admit there are a few times when I've disrespected someone who didn't deserve it, I try to work on that. But I don't think you try at all, and thus I haven't shown you any.

And Matt... you're wrong