We've got Dish Network and the HD package - but locals aren't in HD (meaning no Networks in HD) meaning no SuperBowl in HD.

I don't have an OTA antennae because I'm assuming I can't pick up the STL stations OTA HD - but if someone can confirm that I might be able to, I'm willing to give it a try.

Our house is surrounded by trees, we're at the bottom of a hill (or near enough) right off of Forum Drive...

The closest tower according to the Internet is about 80-90 miles away.

Can you actually tell a difference between HD and regular tv? If so, how big of TV do you have?

Should be able to get KRCG-13 (CBS, Jeff City) and maybe KOMU-8 (NBC, Columbia) no problem.

If you can't get KOMU-8, try KY-3 (NBC) out of Springfield area.

Good luck with ABC and Fox.

Do either of those two broadcast in HD - actually ky3 probably does, but I don't know about KOMU.

As for the quality question, Yes, there is a huge difference. I have a projector on a 100 inch screen that'll do 16:9 720p HD (1280x720) compared to standard 4:3 SD 640x480. Its night and day.

Indeed, I was doubting the merits of HDTV, till I went home to my parents house. On their 51" 16:9 screen it's ridiculous how good ESPN HD looks compared to normal cable. I can recognize people in the stands... see blades of grass... lick the sweat off of Peyton Manning's face... wait... I mean... uh, yeah.

Yeah - ESPN looks the best on my projector because its the only HD channel I get that broadcasts in 720p, the other HD channels (HDNet, HDNet Movies, TNT HD, and Discovery HD) all are 1080i which has to be downconverted for my projector to 720p (1280x720).

Some, though, argue that 720p looks better than 1080i because its progressive scan verse interlaced. I've not had a chance to see 1080i on a native 1080i device compared to a 720p running on a native 720p device.

I just know 720p looks very nice (ESPN HD) on my native 720p projector.

Starting February 1, Dish Network is moving the top 50 local markets to HD over the course of the year. Meaning St. Louis (which is the market here in rolla) which is the #21 Dish Network market, should get HD Networks sometime in the middle of this year. At that point i'm going to switch to the new "DishHD" which should have 25-30 HD channels. I currently only get 5.

I have to say I was also doubting the HD quality when it first came out and then i met a friend of mine(my parents age) who actually puts the sats into space and was showing some stupid golf on it. You will never look at tv the same way again.

KRCG broadcasts CBS-HD on channel 12.1
KOMU broadcasts NBC-HD on channel 36.1
KZOU (Columbia) broadcasts UPN-HD on channel 22.3
KMIZ (Jeff City) broadcasts ABC-HD on 22.1 and FOX-HD on 22.2
KMOS (Warrensburg) broadcasts public access and PBS in HD on 15.1

Chances are, you'll likely only get KRCG and KOMU...that's all I get with my indoor antenna from 30 miles out. Granted I don't try to get the hi-def signals.

Thanks for that info, with that knowledge I might buy a cheap UHF indoor antennae from RadioShack if they have one and see if that works, or run it outside and see if I've got any signal with that.

Where'd you get that informatio and what does "channel 12.1" mean? I have an OTA antennae input on my Dish Network HD receiver which i'll run it to, now I just have to figure out how to tune it.

Info was listed on tvguide.com. If you want to check the St. Louis or Springfield areas, go there, do their localized listings, get a zip code for where you want to look, and then do area broadcast stations.

The "12.1", etc. it's how the HD tuners are set up. You tune to this channel on your HD tuner and things just work. I don't know much more about it than that.

Actually I did some research on it, and thats not right, I don't think.

12.1 means its Analog is on 12 and the .1 simply means its HD component is broadcasting on some other frequency. So 12.1 could mean the HD channel is probably in the UHF fequency somewhere (14-69 methinks).

Edit: Actually looking at the numbers you gave me that can't be right because KOMU analog is on 7. What I read on the HD forums is that the HD channels are still standard channel numbers, but they're generally in the UHF range. So KOMU may be analog 7, but Digital 35 or something to that effect. I just don't know where I could find information on what the actual channel numbers they are broadcasting in digital. It doens't really matter though, because my receiver would scan and find it if it had a signal, but it doesn't.

What I have to do is set my HD receiver to scan for analog and digital channels - the problem is I only got channel 7 analog (KOMU), and from what i've read the digital channels generally broadcast weaker signals. So if I can only get KOMU analog, theres basically no chance i'll get any digital channels unless I had some monstrous outdoor antennae, and i'm not about to do that.

I'll just wait for Dish Network to roll out the STL Locals in HD... it'll happen sometime in the middle of the year.

That's really interesting, especially considering KOMU broadcasts their standard signal on 8. I don't know how you're getting it on 7 down there, seems odd. I know that I can pick up a faint ghosted copy of channel 8 on channel 6, it's kinda weird. Same with channel 13, it also comes in on 10. Might have something to do with repeater stations or what have you.

I know that some cable boxes will re-map tuner channels to regular (3-digit, no separator) numbers internally. It's just one of those things they do.

I really don't know anything about the mechanics behind how the signal transmission actually works, but I know that on the HD tuners I've had experience with, you tuned the channel to (for example) 81-7 or 26-3. And if you didn't have the tuner programmed, pressing Channel Up would take you through 81-8, 81-9, 82-1, etc. The HD digital cable boxes in Columbia also work like this, I think ESPN-HD is on like 151-1 or something like that if you use one company's package, but KMOS-HD is 152-3 or something along that.

Anyway, good luck with it, and I hope you get something that works for you!

Interersting - Maybe thats the difference between OTA HD and cable HD. Maybe its not KOMU on channel 7, I didn't take the chance to stop and look real well, I just glanced at it and though it was KOMU from what I saw.

Thanks for the information once again - it is pretty confusing.

I think i've given up on OTA HD here in rolla, if I was in Jeff City or St. Louis I might seriously consider it, but being 60-90 miles away from any of the broadcast towers, its just not worth the work.

I went to Fidelity to ask them if they really offered any local channels in HD before I bought a HDTV, and the lady at the counter said "Yes"
I asked again to make sure, she ashured me that Yes any shows that were in HD on Fox, ABC and the like I would get in HD...

That was a flat out lie!!!!

I'm pissed.

I'm still trying to figure out a way to get OTA HD signals, or any local HD sevice... but it does look to be a waste of time.

Yeah, fidelity HD sucks.

I too called them and ask them if they had any network locals and the first time the lady said "No, but you can get them OTA" so I called up Dish and figured out what they had, then I called Fidelity back and asked some other lady about HD Locals, and she basically had no clue what I was talking about.

So I decided to go with Dish Network.

I *think* fidelity only has 4 HD channels: ESPN, HDNet, HDNet Movies, and Discovery HD.

Dish network has 5 standard HD channels: ESPN, HDNet, HDNert Movies, Discovery HD, and TNT HD. We also got HBO and Showtime HD when we had a 3 month free of HBO/Showtime.

They also have 10 Voom HD channels for $5/more a month on top of the standard HD pack. I originally was going to get it, but decided I'd just call them up and have them add it if I wnated it later. When I finally decided I wanted it for more HD stuff, they said "Oh it requires another dish."

Apparently my dish 500 sattelite dish is pointed at 110 and 119, while the Voom channels are carried over a sattelite that apparently is at either 129 or 61.5, so they said they'd have to add a second dish, which seemed like too much of a hassle.

Now (as of February 1) Dish has a new package called DishHD which has the standard 5 channels I mentioned before + ESPN 2 HD + Universal HD, and it includes 15 Voom Channels, and supposedly they'll add 2 pretty soon (Food and HGTV HD) and then add a few more as the year goes on.

In addition to that, St. Louis (which is what market Rolla is in) is scheduled to get their local networks (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX) in HD sometime this year.

So I'm going to try and upgrade to a dish 1000 dish (which should pick up all the channels), and then upgrade the package to get the total of about 30 channels in HD (4 locals + 7 Standard HD + 15 Voom + a few new ones added this year).

I just hope 1) That doesn't require a yearly commitment to Dish Network (as currently we're monthly) and 2) That we have a clear enough sky for the new Dish 1000 to pick all the new HD channels up.

So, assuming all goes well, we should go from 5 to about 30 HD channels (including locals) soon - and that will be a much more pleasurable experience on my 100 inch 720p projector.