Why? Why are people in the dorms so angry at greeks? Why don't the 2 groups get along? Why do we voluntarily segregate ourselves? We're not really all that different. We all came to this school for the same reason.

I'd like to invite a serious discussion here, and not something that turns retarded. Please keep your posts to the point. If you want to bang voyager chick or something, start your own thread. If you feel that you absolutely have to flame me or you will lose your manliness, then go ahead, I really can't stop you. I would just like to know where this deep-seated hatred comes from. I just think it feels like living in the deep south in the '60's.

Honestly, I don't know why this hatred exists. I don't even know if it really exists. Since I've been here, I've only seen the Greek powers that be as helpful to us. They were extremely helpful to the residence halls at St. Pat's last year, and otherwise more or less ignorant of our existence.

I think that what 'hatred' does exist is 'residiual'... left over and passed from generation to generation from a time long past when we actually had a reason to hate them. The governing bodies themselves of both sides work together well, and there's no reason why we should be at odds... we just have to convince everyone else to forget what they've been told to think.

i don't know how it originated, but the greeks pretty much chose to segregate themselves from everyone else. in order to attend a greek party, you have to have one of three things: a greek id, be on the guest list, or have tits. they don't exactly seem to be too accepting of the rest of campus. frats at most other colleges allow others into their parties for a simple cover charge at the door. and it's pretty obvious that most, not all, but most greeks have an arrogant asenine attitude about themselves thinking that they are so much better than everyone else. why? because you bought your friends?

See, now that's the first time I've heard that complaint. That issue hasn't been brought to the greeks as a problem as far as I know, and I don't know the reason towards the Greek ID's. This should be brought to their attention, and changed if they don't have any good reason besides segregation.

I think if RHA and IFC sat in a circle and sang Kum-by-ya everything would be ok.

I missed the logic behind this one. Just because Kim Hoe Godwin and reslife has a happy happy meeting between hall governments doesn't mean very much.

I'm no party expert, but if you expand the allowed people to the entire campus, you're going from the order of 1000 to about 5000. If those parties were 5 times bigger, they would be way out of hand. Since they have to put some restriction on who can come, why not just allow Greeks and women?

-Ryan

Ok, I'll give you that, but the students themselves, at least the PanHell and IFC Pres, and the like, have no problem with the Halls, and have expressed the sentiment to try to work out the differences. I didn't say anything about the Pro Staff involved.

Here's a little explanation as to why there are guest lists and greek IDs. Every Fraternity is required to have a risk management policy by their national organization. And every risk management policy ever written bans open parties. Thus, the need for the guest list/Greek ID. Following a risk management policy means limiting risky behaviour to prevent accidents. For instance, say Bob gets alcohol poisoning and ends up in the hospital. If Bob was drinking at a fraternity/sorority, Bob's parents can sue the fraternity. Not only is the local fraternity at risk, but also the national. By following a good risk management policy, this would not happen.

The way it stands at UMR, Bob knows that if this happens, he will never be able to attend another party at Rolla (who would want the risk of Bob doing something stupid at their house?) Guest lists and Greek IDs work in this situation.

Here's another example of why guest lists are used. A couple of years ago at St. Pat's there were some huge fights at parties. As it turned out, the fights were caused by people from another University that were friends of people at Rolla. The immediate way to stop this is to limit the number of guests on guest lists. No fraternity is going to want to have a trouble maker on their guest list instead of girlfriends and cool guys, so immediately the troublemakers are cut. Guest lists work here too.

Basically, we are all forced to abide by these rules by the stupidity of few. I say we should make it illegal to be a stupid person.

What you are saying is right in theory, and I won't argue that that wasn't the original intent. In practice, it doesn't work that way. How many Greek parties have turned away females at the door that weren't on the guest list? Or are you telling me every female that attends this school is already on the guest list? Additionally, don't tell me that your alcohol policies include serving to minors, which we both know happens at Greek parties.

My intent is not to get moralistic or to tell you what is going on is wrong... They are your parties to do with what you will. My point is that what you say and what happens are two different things. Personally, I don't particularly mind if there is some competition between the Greeks and everyone else, or if the two aren't buddy buddy. I think the number of people on both sides who really hate eachother is pretty small, and most people really don't care where you live.

In practice, it DOES work that way. Stop speaking out of ignorance. We always turn away people not on the guest list or without greek IDs at the door. Regardless of what your uninformed informants have told you. Male or female. Sometimes, even police officers come guard the door when the RPD isn't busy. They enforce this with us.

Something else you said...you think greeks parties serve to minors. WRONG. Minors can't bring in alcohol, and we will not serve them. However, if an older person from their house brings in a cooler of alcohol, they all share it. Make sense? There is no way to enforce this except by watching everybody on the floor very carefully.

Greeks have no problems with "dormies." If they have friends that live in the dorms, they may put them on the guest list. It is simply a way of maintaining some sort of control.

Lets try discussing something else. Greek IDs are required by our insurance provider, and we are only obeying the rules that they lay out for us. If you think they are rediculous or unfair, contact them.

Ok, those multitudes of freshman that I see during Freshman week and the weeks after that that come back drunk from Greek parties all happen to be on the guest list (and carded). And the alcohol that I was offered as an incoming freshman must have been a figment of my imagination. Perhaps it's overgeneralizing to say all Greeks, but I don't think that I ever did.

Of course I can't speak for all houses, but I can speak for mine. Several houses (which I will not name) are on probation for the practices you mention. They no longer have parties, because they don't want to risk losing their charters.

During Rush Week, which I believe is what you are referring to by "Freshman week," we allow potential members to party with us, but we keep a close eye on them and monitor exactly who they are. That is the only instance I can think of in which Greek IDs are not required.

I am willing to concede that serving alcohol to minors probably does go on at some Greek parties. But minors can't get alcohol any easier at a Greek party than they can at a GDI party.

As I mentioned before, there are other differences waiting to be discussed. Why dwell on this point when it's obvious you will never agree with me? What about GPA's, study habits, involvement in campus activities/organizations, etc. Like bigfattitty said when he started this post, let's have a "serious discussion here, and not something that turns retarded."

So now you're conceding Cat's point, and then comparing the difficulty in gaining alcohol to that of another party. Then you're complaining about the argument not being serious. Well I think you just seriously lost this sub-argument to Cat.

You completely ruined this thread. Thank you. I said in my previous post that the argument was dumb anyway. Did you read it?

I love you.